[Heaven's Night]

Shirazmn

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Hmmm... I'm all up for labels as long as they carry scientific meaning, and I strongly believe that nobody should be offendedby a label if it's only used with its scientific meaning. In a forum like this, where we talk about hormones, phytohormones, aromatase, etc... I think it's extremely important that we use some classification to differentiate between different biological sexes.

Yea, its all cool when its appropriate, however all random bullshit is being thrown around the forum from time to time and it has nothing to do with labelling sex characteristics. Note the reason why I started this thread and what initated the need to, it wasn't about labels. 

There are a lot of people who are intersex, some say up to 7% of the population, but the vast majority still falls within the standard XY and XX genotypes. Those are the GM and GG (should be GM (genetic males) and GF (genetic females), to be honest, since Girl is a social term that has to do with gender and not with gender and not with biology). The AMAB and AFAB definitions only tell part of the story because intersex pople are usually assigned M or F at birth anyway.

Yes there are and lot of them don't even know it as it doesn't always show outwards. A glance decided what my id said for thirty seix years, it was a mistake that I've paid dearly for to fix. 

One can hold the grudge against nature, against a god, against their parents... as much as they want for their genetic markup, but that is there to stay, and it will drive the physiological responses to whatever is injected, eaten, and quite possibly felt for the rest of their life. One may not like it, but it is important. I seriously struggle to understand how one person, in a forum like this or in a medical environment, can get angry against clinical facts. It's as if a post-SRS transex woman ( <- term used intentionally instead of "transgender" to highlight the post-srs surgery) got angry when their doctor suggested a prostate screening to check for signs of cancer. Imagine the absurdity of this person going "How dare you say that I have a prostate? I am a woman!". One thing is to be intentionally misgendered, one thing is to deny the obvious effects that one's genetic markup has on their own body.

Who has a grudge against what? What has that to do with this thread? Who's getting angry at stuff which is a business of their endocrinologist, gynecologist or urologist or surgeon? No one has. Someone who does isn't being very smart. Did you know that trans women get a very interesting diceroll with cancer risks? Prostate cancer risk lowers dramatically after enough tim on HRT while breast cancer risk elevates somewhat. Regardless of what activated Y chromo set in motion during pregnancy, and the physicalchanges puberty did, it doesn't change the fact that fully medically transitioned trans woman has very literally changed her sex charcteristics to the extent its currently possible. Its amazing what medical science can do. Btw, I don't know any trans woman who's in denial about their bodies, they're more aware than any cis normie will ever be. But that will never make any of them a man, getting prostate screened doesn't change that. Or even being non op. 

The denial and grudge I see is cis peopel trying to deny non cis people being who they are, and they use fuckton of crutches for the mental acrobatics needed for it. And they use biology to deny our existence and any excuses there are to say that we're not who we are. That is the problem, not physical traits ot sex characteristics or what thier doctors discuss and do with their healthcare. 

Why is it important to use these labels here? Because you can go on BreastNexuS and tell GFs to use fenugreek to increase bust size from day one, but you can't do the same here, even if a user of this forum identifies as female from day one. Their physiology is just not the same. I think that we should all see this as a safe space where we give for taken that a reference to our genetic sex is not an insult but a way to level the ground to understand how to get similar results. It's easy to identify the people who openly insult others, but it's important that the communication remains open and frank.

Yea and male sex characteristics can be changed with HRT and surgery... Who was insulted? I was insulted by transphobic false statements about sex characteristics being immutable. They're not, that's what transition does, it changes sex characteristics. No one is denying the fact that dudes, trans women and some intersex people need adifferent approach to growing boobs than a cis woman does. 

The problem is pushing labels falsely and claiming shit that's obviously transphobica and a lie. I'll repeat this as many times as needed to get it accross. No one was pissed off about labels. Me and Nephele just said it out loud that these "scientific" labels and stuff are often used as a trasphobic dogwhistle to invalidate our existence between the lines while appearing to be all about human biology and science. 

Funny, its medical science invented for cis people which is making a sex transitions possible. Its medical science hacking genetics we all carry within ourselves, the expression of which differs from person to person. 

What I find insulting is when a snail looks at a butterfly and calls it a caterpillar, regardless of butterfly obviously being a butterfly. I'm sure you've seen the meme. 

And, Lara, I disagree on the "English isn't my first language either. Nothing's stopping people from learning it except ignorance and laziness or sheer stuopidity. None of which are on short supply.". Not knowing English is not a matter of being lazy or stupid. It is a matter of not knowing it well, or not realising that we don't know it well enough. While everyone knows the basic "Hello", not everyone understands the nuances of "allyship language". If we want this community to thrive and help as many people as possible finding their way through breast growth and potentially gender discovery, we can't exclude those who try dipping their feet into this world for the first time. 
I love when someone posts something like "Long time lurker, I never had the courage to post, but I want to introduce myself...". I remember the euphoria that came from finally being able to speak about my inclinations and my desire for breasts. I know how important my first post on BN has been for my personal growth. And I would really love that people feel free to post here without having to worry that someone will read their post, find something unintentionally offensive, and start attacking them.

Simplest language which is all over everywhere online. Most people don't have difficulty learnig it if they want to. 

Attacking them? I didn't attack the poster, I shouted like a fucking nasty feminist banshee about false statements which are not just bs, but also transphobic. I will not be persuaded from not doing so in the future too. This is one of the few things on which I will not compromise, it wont fly. I wont allow it. This definitely is a hill I'm willing to die upon. 

And, to answer @flamesabers question, which is something I rarely do, we can KEEP, not MAKE, BN a safe and inclusive space by guiding instead of fighting or insulting those users who have just begun their journey and that trusted this space enough to open themselves to the world. Confrontation doesn't help. (I am not saying that Flamesabers did it, but I am sure that threads like this one could discourage newcomers from posting)

Transphobia will be confronted promptly and without hesitation. If this makes some people not post, then I don't think we want such people here to begin with. Transphobic bigoted men should confront their own biases and attitudes before blurting out every possible piece of bullshit they can come up with. First grow up, then start posting. 

I'm absolutely 100% done with this thread btw. I'm exhausted as fuck as I'm super busy with life and I have no clue where the hell I find energy to post this kinda stuff, but things that have to be said, have to be said.

I've been busy today creating a new logo for one of my bands. Takes ages to get it done.