[nephele]

hi <3

i saw a video on youtube by nicole nadire, who recounted her decisions made along her ~3.5 year transition journey (from male to female) and she mentioned being grateful her dr (powers (*)) that he adviced her to wait ~2 years until starting progesterone, to let her breasts get a good start. she explained that taking progesterone too early results in too fast breast growth according to dr powers, and that "the little bulb in there will not develop correctly". i've heard about progesterone terminating ducts but this is the first time i hear about "too fast" breast growth being something caused by progesterone? usually i've read that progesterone slows the progress down but ensures the breast develops wholly and not just in a cone-like projection. and 2 years of hrt until starting progesterone? the usual tip is to wait until budding has happened and then start prog. 2 years seems pretty conservative?

does anyone have any more information about this? what is "too fast breast growth" and how does progesterone cause this when introduced earlier than 2 years into hrt?

this is the video, around 8 minutes she talks about progesterone. https://youtu.be/xgzuS3EJ7kA?t=478




(*) i have mostly mixed/negative position towards dr powers' practice, from what i've read, the guy seems pretty happy to post all kinds of opinions around the internet without backing them up or citing anecdotes about his patients and calling them scientific facts. also i can't help but feel pretty angry about him trying to pretend he understands what it's like to be trans just because he used some estrogen cream on his face and got what he calls mild dysphoria for a whole of two days. he also doesn't seem to mind all that publicity at all. there's tons of warning stories about him like like this but as mentioned there and elsewhere, his cult-like following really hates anyone criticising him and seeks to silence dissonant voices.

so i'm pretty skeptical about this whole thing just based on who the info is coming from, but you never know.

[Shirazmn]

1) I agree with you on Dr Powers. He seems to make a lot of noise with very little substance.
2) More or less everywhere I look on the subject of breast growth, people agree that Progesterone "can stop growth". I think that "stop" is a bit drastic, and that it may slow it, instead. I am not sure at what point it should be introduced but, as far as I understand, Estrogen makes bust growth while Progesterone makes it mature in shape and in the shape of the areola. I have also read many accounts of trans women who have taken P and their growth didn't stop, or that growth restarted once they stopped Progesterone. 
The 2 years mark may be a generic indication for "when you are big enough".

[Heaven's Night]

This is the "schools of thought" thing with progesterone. No one has absolute evidence for neither approach, except ton of anecdotes seem to point out that early prog start being a good idea. I did that, it never slowed down anything, let alone did anything "too fast", I started injections at two months, prog at seven months, I'm fifty six months on and well... See for youself.

I advice people to pick up prog as soon as they can or when they feel comfortable.

Powers is a quite controversial figure and I take his ideas with a grain of salt. Some interesting experimental ideas and ton of dubious bs coming from that guy. To his merit, he is one of the rare doctors who is willing to think outside of the box and try stuff out outside of the protocol. 

His stuff about understanding the trans fem experience however is a big load of bs, he is a cis man. He does not magically "get it". Having an understanding is one thing, claiming to know what we go through is load of crap. Only those who experience crippling dysphoria really understand how its like. Others have educated guesses and experience and then there's whole lot of lies. Its so typical of a cis male mansplaining trans fem experience. They're always the ones to know the best and to decide our fate which is totally wrong. If Powers was really smart, he would steer clear of such claims.

I say proceed with caution when dealing about any "facts" coming from him.

EDIT:
I read that Reddit post... Disgusting behaviour. And that's not the only such story either.

[flamesabers]

I've spoken to at least two in-person doctors about adding progesterone. The consensus seemed to be that there's simply inadequate amounts of data on using progesterone for trans women's HRT regimes. From conversing with other trans women on the topic, some swear by it as being very effective for physical/mental reasons, some say it didn't do anything for them, and others caution about waiting X number of months or years before adding progesterone to one's HRT regimes.

I started progesterone (100mg, orally) about 14ish months after I started oral E. However, at that point, I already had breast growth from being on PM for about 9 years previously. The doctor who wrote the initial prescription said it was up to me to decide if I needed to be on progesterone or not.

[Heaven's Night]

Yea I've heard a similar line, which is used here to deny presciribing it to anyone what so ever. Of course, how else. They cite "no evidence" even though there's massive amount of evidence, but not enough studies. I rather believe lived experience on this matter. Usefulness of prog is YMMV situation, like everything else. Balance, genetics, luck.

I have benefitted hugely. So has Lotus, Mel and Mia to mention some friends. Then there are others who didn't get much of it.

Only one way to really know and that is to try. Everything else is guesswork and preferences and some doctors following protocols which states "no evidence" which they repeat like a word of god even when the evidence stands right before them.

[flamesabers]

I've spoken to at least two in-person doctors about adding progesterone. The consensus seemed to be that there's simply inadequate amounts of data on using progesterone for trans women's HRT regimes. From conversing with other trans women on the topic, some swear by it as being very effective for physical/mental reasons, some say it didn't do anything for them, and others caution about waiting X number of months or years before adding progesterone to one's HRT regimes.

I started progesterone (100mg, orally) about 14ish months after I started oral E. However, at that point, I already had breast growth from being on PM for about 9 years previously. The doctor who wrote the initial prescription said it was up to me to decide if I needed to be on progesterone or not.

Yea I've heard a similar line, which is used here to deny presciribing it to anyone what so ever. Of course, how else. They cite "no evidence" even though there's massive amount of evidence, but not enough studies. I rather believe lived experience on this matter. Usefulness of prog is YMMV situation, like everything else. Balance, genetics, luck.

I have benefitted hugely. So has Lotus, Mel and Mia to mention some friends. Then there are others who didn't get much of it.

Only one way to really know and that is to try. Everything else is guesswork and preferences and some doctors following protocols which states "no evidence" which they repeat like a word of god even when the evidence stands right before them.

Planned Parenthood (they operate under the informed consent model) still prescribed me progesterone, but they refused to prescribe me bicalutamide. That was one of the reasons why I switched to the VA at the time for my HRT prescriptions. Perhaps ironically, the VA doctor said he could prescribe me bicalutamide, but recommended leuprolide injections as a better form to nuke my T levels (and so it could be tracked in my blood work).

[Heaven's Night]

Planned Parenthood (they operate under the informed consent model) still prescribed me progesterone, but they refused to prescribe me bicalutamide. That was one of the reasons why I switched to the VA at the time for my HRT prescriptions. Perhaps ironically, the VA doctor said he could prescribe me bicalutamide, but recommended leuprolide injections as a better form to nuke my T levels (and so it could be tracked in my blood work).

What was their reasoning for denying Bica?

[flamesabers]

Planned Parenthood (they operate under the informed consent model) still prescribed me progesterone, but they refused to prescribe me bicalutamide. That was one of the reasons why I switched to the VA at the time for my HRT prescriptions. Perhaps ironically, the VA doctor said he could prescribe me bicalutamide, but recommended leuprolide injections as a better form to nuke my T levels (and so it could be tracked in my blood work).

What was their reasoning for denying Bica?

The doctors (Planned Parenthood's) weren't authorize to prescribe Bica to me. The doctor really wanted to, but it wasn't on the "approval list" of medications they could prescribe to patients.